Everyone laughed at her joke
As if they'd never even heard it before
And maybe they were truly amused
But every word that she spoke was a bore
And maybe it's because they had seen
The previews on the TV screen
Well this part is good and that's well understood
So you should laugh if you know what I mean
But it's all relative
Even if you don't understand
Well it's all understood
Especially when you don't understand
Then it's all just because
Even if we don't understand
Then lets all just believe
Everyone knows what went down
Because the news was spread all over town
And fact is only what you believe
And fact and fiction work as a team
It's almost always fiction in the end
That content begins to bend
When context is never the same
And it's all relative
Even if we don't understand
And that's well understood
Especially when we don't understand
Then it's all just because
Even if we don't understand
Then lets all just believe
I was reading a book
Or maybe it was a magazine
Suggestions on where to place faith
Suggestions on what to believe
But I read somewhere
That you've got to beware
You can't believe anything you read
But the good Book is good
And that's well understood
So don't even question
If you know what I mean
But it's all relative
Even if you don't understand
Well it's all understood
Especially when you don't understand
And it's all just because
Even if we don't understand
Then lets all just believe
But there you go once again
You missed the point and then you point
Your fingers at me
And say that I said not to believe
I believe ......I guess
I guess it's all relative
"It's All Understood" by Jack Johnson....
And for all of you, I am fine. As Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy would say, in large friendly letters: "Don't Panic."
31 comments:
Well, I may attempt an entry now and then. Re: Josh's post about the blind leading the blind..., the picture of Josh and friends sitting around a large hole, legs dangling in, is an interesting picture that I can't get out of my mind. I am just a casual traveler who happened to see you there, and being acquainted with one of you stop to say hello. I see others have stopped to visit, so I quickly move on, because I don't feel I have much to offer, but something holds me. I have so little, what good could it possibly be? Even after a short conversation, I know I am outmatched intellectually. So right up front, I concede.., I am no competition for matching wits. Clearly, I have not been where you have been, so how can I possibly relate? Maybe I should just move on and leave time and space for someone more qualified. I start to walk away, several times, I hear my duty to plant apple trees calling. So, what shall I do. I am decades older. You probably have terminology I don't understand, and problems I never faced, and I have no formal training in helping hole jumpers, and this is clearly serious business. So I guess for now, I will sit back from the hole a little ways.., it makes me nervous, it always has. If you don't mind, I will just start a small warming fire, just a little ways back from the edge, just close enough to talk in a normal voice. I have thought of a few simple things to say, so I may, given time, get the courage to say them. Best Regards - Johnny Appleseed
Ok so who are you? Identify yourself. If not publically that's fine but at least message me and tell me.
And if you are talking to Josh then he has his own site, just so you know. Why are you posting on my site when all you are really doing is talking to Josh anyway.
I welcome anyone's comments, so talk all you want... but 1) i want to know who you are and 2) fyi, if its josh you really wanna talk to, he has his own site.
ever,
ashl
i cant even express how sad you guys are:(
Whoa... I love well written messages like that. And if you really are coming and really going to offer some HELPFUL advice Im all ears. I would be willing to hear what you have to say as long as its not the same old. Because yes I am aware I am depressed, I am aware that I have a less than perffect life(in every way you can think of) -.-. MOst of the things you will say I probably ahve already come to the same conclusion. What it really boils down to in the end is I have it all figured out on the superficial life lvl I jsut need to act. When it comes to Religion which is where I am hung up the most I am confused. I dont know what to think anymore. BUt as Ashley pointed out I do have my own site. IM pretty sure you can post on it. I believe I ahve a screening thing though. But I wont preven you from posting unless you are a "i cant even express how sad you guys are:(" person. I dont really think that is necasary considering its obvious. IN both meanings of that. Yes we are sad and we express it ourselves. If you are going on about being online...uhm...Its cause Im at home and I do live in the country which means miles from anyone so i cant go out. lol. And this is better than TV or video games. I prefer talking/writing than watching a sitcom or reality tv show. Less pointless. And I hate pointlesness. Which is one reason I hate life so much..I need a meaning. I need a point and i ahve none. I dont really need friends it seems some of them NEED me but...O.o I always say the same. They would be better off without me. That way they dont the other side of it. Anyways...
Im still ears for some of your simple things to say. It depends what your motivation is because you know so little about me.
Josh, you are right, I don't know you very well, maybe that is a good thing.., no pre-concieved ideas about what might be. It may mean that I will be offering the same 'ol, because I don't know what the same ol' is. The easiest thing would be to offer advise, but I think that would just make you nauseous, and I don't like messes. All I can really do is try to relate through my own experience. (I am currently talking to Josh, but really addressing any who sit at the hole's edge, or even come to it occasionally, or even those hiding in the bushes over there). Anyway my business is apple trees, or more precisely, apples. Apples kinda got a bad rap waaay early on, but they are making a come-back, with my help of course. You ever notice that an apple "looks" appetizing, you ever run your fingers over one and feel their texture, you ever sniff one? Were you satisfied by those sensations? How about the taste and sound.., now that's what I'm talking about!
Recently, a young woman, who was clearly trained in the art of making conversation, while riding along in a car together, asked me what is your favorite childhood memory. Whoa! I had never been asked that before. I am basically a contented guy. That question got me wondering why. There were some years I went through that I wasn't, but it got better. My life has been better than some, worse than others, I have bitten into some rotten apples, and had my share of fresh crispy juicy ones. My answer to her insightful question - I remember waking up, sun shining through my window, and birds chirping, and knowing that my parents loved me. Were they perfect, far from it. But I felt safe, secure and free to breath deep and live life. Oh my gosh! What a gift that was! Clearly, I didn't have all these thoughts as a kid, but if you had asked me as I was laying there in bed in the morning what I was going to do, I would say I'm going out to play!! Well, as soon as I get my chores done. What did I do to get parents that gave me a safe place to grow up and experience life? Nothing. Why do others not. Good question. But I think by looking around us, thinking about things that inspire us, we can begin to figure a few things out. What inspires you Josh, what disgusts you. You can just think about it, or if you want, you can post it. But be honest with yourself. Here, I will start. Honesty inspires me. Smashed skunks on the road disgust me. My warming fire is burning down, I need to go grab some more dry wood. Ummm, I hate to ask you this, but is there a place to go to the bathroom around here?
What disgusts me... hmm. The fakes, the ones who say they care but dont, the ones who only "love" you when its conveniant. IM tired of people telling me what drives me telling me what I feel. They arent here and cant understand. Im disgusted by the people judging my actions before they know what would possibly drive me to such measures. I am disgusted at God. The way I understand him the unanswered questions...he is sadistic. Lureing us in before he crushes us under the heel of his foot. I am disgusted by myself to be honest. I will defend myself because I ahve reasons I am this way. I dont like it but its the way I am. The list goes on.
what inspires me... to be honest. Nothing. Depending on inspired?? I personally am not driven to do anything by others. I see no point in everything. I am very nihilistic. There are a few people that would come close though...actuelly. Only two. Both girls. Both having gone through horrible experiences and somehow they hang on. I will never understand how they can do it...the drive. Exspecially one of them. She has the drive to do anything she wants to do. It baffles me.
Music too might be in there. Music is my drug. The high I get form my music is nothing compared to actuel drugs. And I make this statement exactly as it sounds. lol. Im sure som of you are thinking devil music right now. ^.^ Sure i listen to Marilyn Manson but I listen to Acoustic stuff most. Its the Best. like Death Cab for Cutie!! and Muse is REALLY good. They might jsut "inspire" me.
Ok Josh, first things first...., remember who you are talking to. I am Johnny Appleseed. I wear a cooking pot on my head, and old bags for clothes, I go barefoot all the time and I talk to animals, so don't use words like nihilistic on me without a definition.
So I pretty much take it you don't like it when people act like they have it all figured out, and don't. They say one thing and do another. Like a shiny red apple on the outside, but rotten in the middle. Would that be accurate? Or would you like to elaborate?
Now these 2 girls you are talking about......, could we talk about why they inspire you. I think what you are saying is that they are carrying on despite of the overwhelming odds against them. That is definitely inspiring!! Now I am going to expose how sappy I am here a little. Did your parents ever make you watch Homeward Bound, the Incredible Journey? Well, I have watched it a few times, if you don't know it, I will describe it for you later. But after facing all kinds of tough situations together, the two dogs and a cat finally make it home to the family they love. I am trying to think of a one word description of this phenomenon, hmmmmm, maybe perseverance. When they reunite, even though I tell myself to lighten up, I still get a lump in my throat. Pretty corny, huh?
So, I think you are right on. Those girls are inspiring, and so is your loyalty to them.
Also, I find it inspiring that you accept them as they are, you don't expect them to be perfect..., do you....? You like them in spite of their...., ummm problems, or some differences you may have. Would you say that is true?
I started writing on this this morning, but something was lurking in the back of my mind. During the day it occurred to me what it was, about the girls that I was missing. There is an undeniable truth that we all need companionship and acceptance. You have probably heard (and I think it’s true, but I haven’t actually tested it myself), that an infant who is kept warm and fed can die if it isn’t handled and loved. There is another medical fact that I HAVE thoroughly investigated, and that is, if your parents don’t have babies……, neither will you.
I hope this isn’t getting too boring for you. But maybe you could stretch yourself a little, and see if there isn’t another trait or two that you admire. Also, you said in your last post, “that’s just the way I am”. I wonder if you think it is possible to change the way you are.
I am getting a little hungry.., please excuse me while I run grab a McApple and pies.
Nihilisitc(Nihilism): Well It originally came about as almost a religion from people who proof texted...uhm Eclesiastes maybe?? I dont know some book in the bible where it says "meaningless meaningless, all is meangingless" over an dover. So they were like everything is meanginless. So yeah. It just means you dont hold much value in most things. Its all dumb or pointless. For me...it all ends in death and I really dont think we are all meant to make it to heaven and I believe I am one of those. Its all stacked against me.
if you mean more traits in the two I admire lots... uhm. Well they both are rather good at thinking. Deep/ rational. Which I alwasy appreciate someone who wont throw all the bible verses at you exspecting it to make it work. Instead they look at it...and give you advice or try and help fitting the situation. They dont throw a generic lump of advice out there thinking it will work. After all we all have our own story and situations and I haev never ever, thought God can fix them all. Even when I was a christian. I just think sometimes need to do it for ourselves you know? Proactive i suppose.
And Yes I would say its true. It goes deep er then jsut them two. I accept most everyone for who they are. I know everyone on "Stoner Row" (a group of lockers on an overlook of the auditorium) as its called at PHS. I dont really like about 5 of them but Im not going to try and destroy them for what I think. I respect their life as their life. Their morals as their morals. It doesnt effect me so whatever.
Im not entrily sure where you were going with the "we all need companionship" thing?? Another thing you should know about me. Almost all my real friends happen to be girls. I appreciate them more for not having all this " I want to bang her" shit. I hate all that. Which is also why I have been ridiculed as being gay for years by my dad and some of the guys. I respect girls in an overly biblical fashion. well...I hug them lots but thats it lol. IM not gay by any means. Sex has never been a huge motivator for me. oh yes..another reason people think Im gay favorite colors. 1. BLack 2.Pink ^.^ Its an epic color ok? Im trying to get my hands on a pink studded belt and some pink and black vans!! ^.^ anyways.
Do I think I can change?? hmph. NOt so much. "Seasons Change but People Dont"~Fall Out Boy On another level I dont think I CAN change. -.- To a certain extent yes. But religion wise. Im note sure I could come back without feeling compleatly fake about it all. After all I dont think I will ever get decent answers and I dont think I can see God as anything ut Sadistic etc. For little thins such as smoking or something taht trivial sure. "you can change the rules but you wont change my morals"~me kind of relates. Anyways. Im now tired of typing. And I have family counciling on Sat and my parents are forcing me to listen to a sermon in a few minutes in hopes it will cure me or something. -.- I dont know. I dont listen to religin counceling anymore. It doesnt tend to work or be very good. I think the professinal guy Im seeing is awesome though. He actuelly is a no bullshit kinda guy and I ahve had some fun stuff with me and him and me mum. lol. Put her back into check. ^.^ anyways...I gots to go. So bye.
i really dont care what you thinks josh..its me that matters here
Obviously an impersonator writing their insightful words under my name.
Your last post was very interesting, thanks.
Here is an inspiring trait I was thinking of. If you found out that I was dying of pneumonia, (I’m not), and that it took every last bit of strength I had to write these posts, wouldn’t that mean something to you? If a hand grenade came bouncing down the floor on Stoners Row, and one of the Stoners threw himself on the grenade and saved your life, would you have anything to say to his parents? This I would describe as being unselfish. So far this is what we’ve got.
1-Honesty
2-Loyalty
3-Loving – even when it’s not convenient
Or - acceptance / non-judgmental
4-Perseverance / Drive
5-Unselfishness
Are there any of these you would like to take off, or add to??
I was writing about companionship because I think it is such a deep part of our psyche that if you don’t understand it, it could cause big problems. I am glad you treat girls with respect, I think that is a big deal.
I happen to believe a person can change, I have seen it happen. I hope you don’t use that thinking as a cop out for not trying. Remember your 2 girls…, they aren’t caving in, they are going on. This is good. I agree with you on being proactive. Like in an earlier post of yours you said “you don’t get in a car accident and say GAH!! Satan again”. It would be pretty depressing to me if I thought nothing was going to change, and that I could do nothing about it. I just guess I have lived long enough, and observed enough to see that making an effort can make a difference, and that making no effort is a sure fire way to get more depressed.
What I really wonder about is why you think we are not all meant to get to heaven. That sounds like the pits, but I would love to hear your reasoning on that. Also, for what it’s worth, your comment about your friends being deep, rational thinkers, got me to thinking today. I think I am a deep but uncomplicated thinker. Looking forward to your next post.
Hey Geoff and Ashley – any thoughts?? Sorry, not up to "trying" to be funny today. I'm sure even Johnny had his days.
If that went down on stoner row I would most likely be the one throwing myself on the grenade. I consider myself a lost cause and sacrifice myself whenever possible if it means bettering someone elses life. However if someone else did do that the sad fact is no one would miss a single one of those kids. One of them whose name alos happens to be Josh, was kicked out of Bakersfield California. Kicked out of a city/town. He is serving his jail time this weekend which is where he is almost every weekend due to his stuff. Most of the other 16-18 year olds dont even live with parents. They have their own apartments where bunches of them live with a college buddy or soemthing. Actuelly getting out in the world will really expand your knowledge of the "lost generation".
Anyways. The truth about me is I cant stand it when people help me or save me from something. I dont want that. I want them to be working on improving them while I help them improve their situation. So I honestly have no clue what I would do in that situation. Your assesmentys of things I value is correct though.
Why do I think we are not all able to go to heaven?? I think God has made it that those of is unfortunate enough to spend their entire lives contemplating religion the way i have, there is no real hope. I can not find any concevable way to accfept God for what he is other tahn a monster. And I dont think there is any real way I can come back to my former self without it being forced and fake. I also went through a phase and still kind of do that I know of God. If I repent and follow him I can be saved and go to heaven. But what about the kid who has gone through hell on earth and is the nicest most deserving person of heaven out there?? He doesnt know of God and never will so he goes to hell. There are millions that are never given a chance to hear Gods word and the hope that may come with it. I cant bring myself to follow a God who creats billions of people jsut to send them to an eternity of suffering.
Also. My mum is always saying that I wont understand God until he opens my eyes in a way I can understand him...which would inadvertantly mean I can not be hel accountable for what Im saying. Im waiting for God to open my eyes..O.O Personally I feel its more of a I need eyes that are more closed. I know this sounds dumb ...but once a video game said a line that I actuelly thought about and it made sense. "Blessed is the mind to small for doubt" That is so true. I mean the majority the vast majority of todays christians (Exspecially at Logos) will never stop to think about what it is they are following. They never dream of anything else. Which leads to close minded stuck up snobs. Its as if God wants mindless Zombies willing to sing praises ti his name regardless of anything. I dont wnat to nor can I become a mindless Zombie as I was. @.@
One thing I never understood even WHEN I was a christian was praying. I never understood how mumbling to the O2 was going to change anything. Pray to Allah, Budah, God, Satan, or Aliens. What difference does it make. I mean here is somehting taht struck me along time ago which made me think about this. A class election. One of the electorals prayed to God and told me about the fact he was praying he would win a posistion even though everyone was going to vote for the opponent. It was over before it began. But low and behold he won??(the kid who prayed) Of course he gave thanks to God but what actuelly happened was that the other person told everyone to vote for the praying kid becasue the otehr was dared to run and never wanted to win. So it was becasue of the kid not God. Or I could restate my ever famous car accident example. All every religion does is take a series of events that they cant put a finger on why that happened and attach Jesus' name on it.
I think I have gone horribly off track -.-
But getting back on track. Yes my way is the pits. There is no hope and any that might come along is a future prospect for dissapointment. Im so tired of trying only to be let down or stabbed in the back again I stopped even trying. "Hope is the first step down the road to disapointment" ( see I can throw random quotes out there too guys!)
At least mine relate to what Im saying.
As for friends being deep complicated thinkers..not all are. But the four friends that REALLY know me are. If I tell someone who isnt willing enough to sit and think about what it is I say we get the " Satan worshipping kid!!" reaction or something like taht. Or the " OMg!! Im sooo sorry you had to go thorugh all that in your life" and I dont want that. Our lives shape us out to be who we are. And I am much more proud to be a "Satan worshipping Kid" than the ideal of Christianity being thrown upon me. They say do everything unto God. I do everything as if I will be judged by him in the end. But I wont be scared to face him becasue I know why I did stuff. I am living to the best of my ability and if its not good enough so be it. Then I will face the consequences.
Hopefully i answered soemhting in this. I dont like having such a small box cause I jsut kind of go and forget where I started so Im sorry if I jsut rambled.
PS. Im sorry for so many mispellins. I just reread it. I wrote it at fast as possible adn didnt bother checking or looking up for spelling. -.- Sawry
Just wondering what Logos is…
I wonder what you think when you hear of a person who has had an absolutely horrible life, but yet because of the choices they make they rise above it and do well, or even great. I do not know what your life has been like, but I can say with relative certainty that there have been those who have had it worse and have persevered and rose above it and did well for themselves. I know of a man who was an alcoholic and bankrupt at age 55, and by the time he was 70, he was a billionaire and sober. Not that money is the best measure of success, but he could have easily given up. I know we all can do more than we think we are capable of.
So did you mean to say that if a person spends a lot of time contemplating religion, they have no hope of salvation?
I wonder why you think that someone who has no opportunity to hear the word of God - doesn’t go to heaven.
Do you really think that if someone really is a “stuck up snob” they are the “Christian” that pleases God? Do you really think God wants mindless zombies?? If not, how in the world do we go about figuring out what God really wants? Your example of the election that “God won” was quite interesting. I do believe that we have to be very careful about crediting God with different things that happen. If God created the universe, he has got quite a mind, and assuming we can easily determine what he is up to in our lives hugely underestimates God’s mind and abilities.
Just wondering why you think God’s a monster?
Don’t worry about rambling, getting off point, that’s where some of your best stuff is. And I can usually figure out the misspelled words.., if I can’t, you will hear about it. The only reason mine are spelled correctly is that I use the spell chek.
Logos is the school Ashley is curently taking Latin through for colleg prep if she goes to NSA. Its also where I was going unto I was suspended and requested to withdraw. THe suspension was mandatory after three office visits. One for to many tardies, one for skipping a class (which I actuelly had permission from a teacher to do[But superindentant didnt care) and third for...uhm. Oh yeah the paper I wrote on the Puritans wasnt the viewpoint they wanted so they gave me a zero and I gave them hell becasue of it. They asked for an oppinionated paper so I gave them one but it wast the "right" oppinion?? O.o
Anyways...that is Logos. Produces the most sheltered kids in the world that are going to get a very rude wake up call when they graduate. lol.
Your example of people rising up and turning life around..some people are somehow capable they have a gift and that gift is an incredible self confidence and drive. And everyone perserveres in their own way. Some become billionaires some become crime kingpins. But why can they do that?? They obviously have a motivation a goal in the end. They have something to aim for. I dont have one. Months ago it was just find a way to die without killing myself just in case there was a God and I wouldnt have the sin of suicide on my plate. Those plans fell through or would have to wait years so i decided to do it myself ran away, stole a knife from a friends and wouldnt you know it was hella dull. I tried and tried but all I got was a small trickle so I gave up. 7 hours the girl who I took the knife from and Ashley and another girl named Jancy (all of them were probably my closest friends at logos) thoght I was dead. Finally I called Ashley (only number I had) and let them know I was still here. After talking to them I realized how much they needed me so now I am here...for them. Im living for them not for me. I dont want to be here so all Im doing is keeping my head above the water possibly until they all go away. To rise up you need a reason to. I dont really see the point in waiting 60 years to Die when i can do it today or tomorrow. As of now Im going to hell and I have no idea what would happen to make me become a real christian so ill go to hell in 60 years to. And I would like tp point something else out. When people rise up and become amazing God has nothing to do with it. They sue THEIR drive and THEIR motivation and then get out there and do it THEMSELVES. If someone does the " i would like to thank God for getting me here" we have the election scenario again. Just kind of taking any possible opportunity and slapping a generic "God made this happen" sticker.
My mindless zombie example. How many xians(short for christians ^.^) actuelly think about everyhting. Wil sit back and think about it unbiasedly. You cant effectibly judge something if you have your mind already made up about it can you? Same with xians and the bible and God. They worship him and are convinced its all true so of course they are just going to acept it. Mindless Zombies. read bible=God good. They just take everything at face value and its good enough. My spending whole life contemplating religin thing jsut means for those who really start thinking about it God wont make sense. What motivates him what drives him? Why would he always put things out there just so we will stumble. Like the garden. Everything but the apple. We all know due to human nature if you tell the kid not to put his hand in the cookie jar he will put his hand in the jar. God KNEW that would happen but for sheer amusement he did it anywyas. We are jsut his toys, his mice in his labratory maze.
"I wonder why you think that someone who has no opportunity to hear the word of God - doesn’t go to heaven."
How can they go to heaven if they dont know God. We can not be saved by works alone. So being a good person with morals wont get you very far with God so how can they go to heaven. No knowledge of God means hell. If they could we could call having your eyes opened by God is more of a curse than a blessing. Or we should jsut start killing are kids as soon as their born so they dont have to go through this and they stand a better chance of going to heaven? And how would a baby go to heaven anyways??? And some people are like God knows what they would have been like if they didnt die at birth which implies he didnt know they would die or soemthing?? Becasue they have absolutly no future plans other than causing the family misery. A sadisitc tool used by God.
Stuck up snobs...all xinas seem to ahve this menatality of save the infedels. Xians have it all figured out and everyone else is fucked up and headed to hell. Im am very serious when i say this I have known much more deserving people than most xians I know. The xians are the corrupt ones often They are effectivly brainwashed of most common sense and are convinced its a "rightous" brainwashing. That everything can be solved by muttering your problems to the shy or reading the bible. I dont understand why xians are like "read your bible everyday it will make you a better xian" Why not do the same with every single self help book or soemthing. In my oppinion read your bible but dont waste your time on it. Set it down and get up and go outside into the real world. Start living life and getting some REAL experience. Stop living in the BC era and the biblical times. You dont need to know all the rules of sacrificing goats. The bible has its uses but so does Confucious or some other quote slinging interent guy.
ok now i have to go. -.-
Dear Anonymous - Well since you are the smartest person I know, I will take your advice and go to Josh's blog, if he will have me. I hope I continue to get your insightful posts. I look forward to getting them, they are so uplifting. Thank you Ashley for the use of your blog and for introducing me to your friends. But anonymous is right, we are cluttering up your blog.
I don't know what I keep screwing up and not getting my user name to show up. So just so there is no confusion, this post and the previous post is written by me, Johnny Appleseed.
Ash, do you know anonymous or are they just a random internet floater?
I know exactly who it is and asked himto stop a long long time ago. He denied it was him but he does this on everything of mine ever. Never actuelly take advice from him or listen to him ever. He is a moron when it comes to things like this. Although he has mad street racing skills. ^.^ but his 67 Chevelle is totalled now so he bought a honda prelude lol.
But yeah. Anonymous...you are doing most of the dragging down you know. If any at all. At least attempts at it.
*moves to his blog*
sawry bout this Ashley. *hug*
Thanks Josh. :-) Somehow knowing who somebody is makes it easier to not get annoyed. Maybe I'm just weird.
Hey I dont know who that anonymus guy is but he's being rude and it isn't so welcome by me. I dont mind if josh and johnny talk here, i find it interesting to read, so keep going if you'd like. I apologize for the rudeness of the anonymus person, even tho i assume they have good intentions for me (so thanks in that way). just be civil thats what i'm asking for. thanks for the concern I appreciate it, but I dont mind if they comment here.
Questions? Just ask, I'm reading.
Ashley - Thank you for your blogspitality. I will make this post and then if Josh would make his next post on his blog, I will add on there, since it seems Josh and I are mainly the ones posting. If anyone wants to follow along, they can simply use the nifty link on your blog. How does that sound?
Josh – Just my opinion, but I think we ALL have the gift to do something constructive with our lives. Our self confidence and self motivation may be so trampled, it is harder for some than others to dig it up.
I agree with you that it is a persons own drive and motivation that get them up and doing something. But I believe that ultimately it is God who gives us life and strength to do things, but what we do with it is up to us.
You asked what motivates God, why does he set us up to stumble. I guess I would attempt to answer that by trying to define love. Here’s what I have thought of. I would ask you, which would you rather have, one spouse that has the choice to love, or hate you, but chooses to love you. Or would you rather have 25 spouses that have no choice but to love you. In that case is that really love? If God wants a real relationship with someone, wouldn’t he have to set it up so we could reject him if we chose to. Otherwise we would just be robots doing what we are programmed to do. So to follow that logic on out, wouldn’t there have to be bad things, to make it possible to have good things. The very existence of negative resistance in our lives makes us aware of the need for something better. I believe that God set up life and everything in it so we would have the opportunity to CHOOSE to love him and CHOOSE good over bad, just so he could have a genuine relationship with us, instead of a programmed existence. I believe that is essentially the difference between humans and animals. A lion has no choice but to act like a lion. It is programmed into them. We are not like that, we have the opportunity to choose what we do with our life. I could choose to reach over and punch my wife right now, but, I choose not to, because I know it would hurt her and I don’t want to hurt anyone, especially her! We can look around us and observe people making choices. Some good - some bad. It seems to me that is how his whole creation is made to function. Without that choice we would not be able to have a loving relationship with God or anyone for that matter.
And by the way, I think it’s really great you are helping your friends.
Your comment about Christians needing to set the bible down and get up and go outside into the real world, made me curious. Do you think that some people read, read, read, and don’t get up and put it into practice? Is this something you have observed happening? Do you feel that if people were really practicing what they were reading, they might just reach out to someone in need a little more? You may be right about that. I guess I too have observed “non-Christians” acting more like Christians than Christians on occasion. I am not sure what to think about that.
In the words of a great writer – ok now I have to go. -.-
I will just keep posting here for conveniance of anyone who reads. Ashley has told me that a some people enjoy reading this apparently so I sahll remain. Besides my profile isnt quite as pretty. But it has mucho good music. ^.^ getting back on subject.
First of all I would like to say I love the analogy you gave about God and love. I know what it feels like to be loved no matter how screwed up you are and I can understand why God would want taht. But there is two sides to that argument. Ina relationship both ppeople need to be loved. When you have one person loving the one and the other being abusive, inconsiderate, unloyal etc, you have a broken relationship. Something I ahve seen in my parents and in countless others. I am now thinking of waht to say cause I have so much I want to say but Im trying to think of how and the transistions O.o hmph. Have you ever witnessed a friend stuck in a hopeless relationship, but they dont see it. Everyone else does but for some reason the person in it cant or WONT see it?? This is what happened with my mum. Every person we knew was telling her to get a divorce including my dads mum. Some of us may love God but we never know he loves us. We may experience a lapse in the suffering and think oh it will be better but it jsut goes back to hell in a week. How do we know we are all meant to be loved by God?? They say God opens your eyes so what about those he doesnt open? What about the people he throws in our life for the purpose of showing us what not to be? In his "design" he KNEW that person would go to hell. And I forgot where I was so I sahll move on to my next point.
Love...everyone knows love is one of the most illogical and irational things out there. We all have or will experience the moment of "I SHOULD do this BUT I wont because of Love." Love intoxicates you, and clouds your judgment. If you love God you can not truly see him for what he is. Sometimes love can reveal someone to us but often it hides them from us too. The best way around that is honesty and telling the one you love everything/ God speaks in riddles and ways taht takes years to figure out and even then you havent figured out. The bible is a series of confused thoughts that make you think in a way where you think it makes sense.
ONe thing i would also liek you to think aobut ina love situation is cheating. I will use an example or examples straight from my life. Say you love someone so much and you think they are the greatest person in the world. (This person you love is more of a a parentish figure or grandparentish) They love you back which is cool. It gives you confidence. You always refer back to stories they told you or things they did with you for fun etc. Here we take a brief respite from the main characters to a side one. Your best friend. They are the epitamy of what you wish you could be. Loving, nice, thoughtful, smart, and everything in between. Deserving of the best. Now back to the main point. Say one day you finally notice that your friend is depressed. Depressed to the point of suicide. You find out they ahve been this way for years you have just been so loved and happy you didnt notice. The killer is...the reason they are so bad. You know that person you love...they are raping your best friend and keeping a smile on their face to you.
So it is with God and everyone around. He smiles at you and tells you he loves you while he rapes the ones who you love, but you dont mind because God loves you and clouds you from waht he is really doing. Which is fucking the people who dont deserve it.
One other thing I would liek to bring up is what I have come to call the "Christian Placebo Effect." You say "God" loves you. You love him you give glory to him etc etc. Who is to say it is not basicall the placebo effect. You see some people get sad and go talk to a friend. Others a counselor some medication, others turn to religion. When you take someone who is empty and has nothing to live for they are so easy to grab and you can throw just about anything in that hole in their heart to make them feel better for awhile. It jsut takes longer for whatever it is you threw their to leak out of that pinhole in their heart. Of course sometimes its being thrown in there so much it never gets out. Some depressed kid is grabbed by an evangalist one day and ta da! A new born Xian. Some other kid is grabbed and is thrust into drugs. And he finds that getting baked is good enough. Or smoking a cigarette. He finds the Nicotene high good enough, or the laughter he has after half a bottle of tequilla and a half bottle of Vodka. THe reason religion is so effective is it takes Love and makes it the main point. Love makes you feel complete. Some get it from relgion and some from something else. It really depends on the person and all that good stuff. I would write more but I need to leave. Its like past 11 and my dad will possibly slaughter me since Im not off. So off I go.
"God called in Sick today"
gosh darn you josh those anonymous are not me... i swear.. i didnt write those. i hardly ever come on here. so stop thinking its me its gettin anoying... so anyway wats up everyone anything interesting happening in your alls world
I still think its you. They sound just like you malcom and you have posted this comment you just made soooo many times on sooo many different blogs. Or lets see that time you hacked my faceboook? lol. I have a million reasons to think its you and not trust you. O.o but w/e I could be wrong.
And PS relating to the post beofre last (of mine) my examples arent figurative in the meaning of, I make u conveniant examples. Rape,suicide, drug abuse, alcahol etc everything I say as examples really happened either to me or a friend. -.- Just so ytou know. I recieved an email through GMail asking about that and just thought I would clear it up.
Josh, if you know of someone who has been, or is being raped you need to tell someone who can do something about it. This could be very difficult if the rapist is someone you know. But I am telling you, it is wrong and it is very bad and needs to be dealt with. Don’t let your feelings keep you from acting.
I am very glad you have felt unconditional love. I believe that is what God is all about. You are right, in a healthy human relationship both people need to be loved. And that is what we all hope for I think.
On a previous post I mentioned that I thought that the first undeniable fact of life is that we all crave companionship and to be accepted, or to be loved.
The second undeniable fact of life (I think) is that this craving will never, in this lifetime, be totally met. Although we crave and are driven for human relations, there are always problems, they are never perfect. Don’t get me wrong, I am a huge advocate of appropriate relationships. I even have a few in my life, even though some think the pot on my head ought to go. I think the reason for this is that we are imperfect. But we were created with the desire for the best.
Because of who we are, we seem to just get an inkling of what could be, but never enough to satisfy us. Along with this thought, we can also get our hearts set on other things in the world. There are many. Could be friends, fast cars, horses, motorcycles, lear jets, sex, alcohol, chocolate, music, knowledge, fishing, snowboarding, or the smell of Vicks vapo rub. But we are never really quite satisfied with any of these things. We may think when we get married, this wonderful person will completely fulfill our life, and they think the same about you. But, as we can all see, it doesn’t end up working out that way. Am I against marriage? Not hardly. A loving committed relationship is the closest thing to heaven we can have. Basically, human love is limited. We all let each other down from time to time. We only have a finite amount of energy, patience, love, forgiveness etc., to give. But I believe God has an infinite amount.
You said love blinds us. True, but I would say it is the crazy irrational feelings we have when we first fall in love with someone. From my experience and from what I have observed, this wacko feeling / blinding phenomenon doesn’t last.
Yes, I agree, the bible can be confusing, no doubt about it. How many different Christian denominations are there to prove it.
You asked, “How do we know we are all meant to be loved by God??” You raise some good questions Josh! The way I approach a question like this is to first read what I can in the bible about it, Check it against how the world/nature works and check it against my conscience. How do we know that taking cuts in line is wrong. How do we know beating a baby is wrong. There are just some things we know are wrong, we can trust our conscience on these things. And I believe there is strong evidence that God can and wants to love every one of us. Can I prove it, nope.
Josh, I think you instinctively know what a good relationship should look like. Don’t doubt yourself on some of these things. Anyway, enough for now.
Gah! The rape things are over and done with.
OK Im back. Uhm...oo the desire for perfection you brought up. You should now go to my blog and read my Post "God called in sick today"
It addresses the perfection thing. Uhm I think I was pissed when I wrote it so prepare for some language. O.o
www.moriarcrux.blogspot.com
There is the link
Ok - I read your post. Hmmmmm. You make a lot of good points. Anyway, I have a third undeniable truth of life, but I can't think of it right now. So have a bowl of ice cream and let my brain rest a minute.
So I wrote a new post on my blog today. It didnt quite get across everyhting that hit me but I tried.
Anyways. I suppose I will wait for your post because tonight Im in the mood for a intelectual thing. Unlike last night. Didnt feel like saying much.
apparently we have moved to my blog for those of you who dont know and like reading. O.o
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